In Conversation With: Nathan Saoudi + Alex White

Words by Spela Cedilnik

Avant Practiced; Nathan Saoudi & Alex White

The Fat White Family needs no introduction but sometimes the sensationalist hype surrounding the band overshadows their band members’ activities that don’t necessarily revolve around the kind of excesses they are known for.

Nathan Saoudi is one of the band’s founding members, songwriters, their keyboard wiz and a solo artist and producer in his own right, known as Brian Destiny, as well as the founder of ‘Dash the Henge’ record label. Alex White is the multi-instrumentalist extraordinaire whom you may just about be able to see on stage among the countless instruments that surround him and whose unique contributions extend across and well beyond the known and unknown multiverse of the Fat White Family’s creative output.

The two of them joined forces to bring us what is probably the most easy going and inventive jam night in London (at the very least). It’s called Avant Practiced and it’s been taking place at a friendly Streatham pub called Earl Ferrers most Tuesdays since September last year.

While they haven’t advertised it much, it quickly attracted musicians from many of the hottest London bands alongside a number of local musicians and other artists, resulting in a unique and curious little community of all sorts of artistic misfits.

(Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

We spoke with Alex and Nathan about its inception, vibe and curry:

Spela: How’s the Fat White Family tour been?

Alex: Really good. Everyone's been enjoying playing again actually so it’s been lots of fun.

Spela: Now let’s talk about Avant Practiced. How did you come up with the idea, what was the idea in the first place and how have you seen it evolve?

Nathan: I moved in above the pub and Tuesday night was closed and I was like, that's really bad business that is, having Monday and Tuesday closed. Come on, let's do a night on Tuesdays. And then Alex called it Avant Practiced and then Fanny is your uncle and Bob's your aunt.

Alex: I'd never been to a jam that was fully improvised. And I wanted to do that. If we were going to do a jam, I wanted it to be all improvised and be very inclusive and like anyone that can hit a fucking saucepan should get up and do it if that's what they want to do. It's not even about good or bad, it's just about the fact that there's music in everyone and everyone can do it.

Nathan: Like a very affordable therapy.

Alex: Yeah it's another way of communicating. Because when we started we were still kind of in lockdown territory. September the 21st, 2021 I think it was. And it was all still like, can we even do this if everyone’s got to wear masks and are we going to get shut down? It also felt a bit clandestine. And people were dead up for letting their hair down and what better way to do it, really?

(Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

Spela: As someone who’s been there most Tuesdays I’d go as far as to say it’s developed into a bit of a micro-scene of its own.

Alex: Yeah I think that happened quite quickly really.

Spela: There’s something that feels almost sacred about it. What do you think makes it so special?

Nathan: Well Tuesdays are so desperate aren’t they? The most desperate micro-scene. [laughs] There’s not much going on on a Tuesday night and most people decide to stay in.

Alex: And also Hank’s jams are Monday and Wednesday and we didn’t want to get on the wrong side of Hank.

[Hank Dog is the legendary promoter who puts on a Monday night jam and a Wednesday night Easycome acoustic night, where the Fat White Family got their first start, among many other bands]

Alex: And also every week there’s someone going ‘Oh, I've just met this person and I'm now going to do this thing’. Like Kitty Cat is going to go in and do live painting while Maria Rosenberg sings a capella or something. And Cat’s just going to paint, which is cool. And Chris Hughes is playing for our friend Joanie's project.

Nathan: It works like psilocybin underneath the ground, you know, the mushroom spores and all that.

Spela: And Hana’s now played and recorded with Bishopskin and they didn’t know her before [James Donovan from Bishopskin met Hana at Avant Practiced].

Alex: Yeah and I didn’t know Hana before.

[Hana Miyagi is a violinist who has also played with Alex as part of the ensemble accompanying Lias Saoudi of the Fat White Family for several of his solo shows].

Nathan: Tuesday nights attract the desperate souls and desperate souls are some of the best souls. You've got to be desperate in this world. And you've got to be able to mask it well.

Alex: I don’t think everyone is desperate.

Nathan: Maybe not on a Tuesday, maybe all through the week and on Tuesdays it’s just more vivid. The desperation of a Tuesday.

Alex: I mean, I have felt pretty desperate arriving here on some Tuesdays to be honest with you.

Nathan: Tuesdays is when most suicides happen.

Alex: They do call it that don’t they, Suicide Tuesdays. The day after the day after a really heavy weekend.

Spela: I always thought it'd be a Sunday.

Alex: Depends how long the party goes on. But yeah they do call it that.

Nathan: Yeah the name was toyed around with actually.

Alex: Though I wouldn’t necessarily want to do a kids jam on a night called Suicide Tuesday.

L-R: Ry-Guy, Saul Adamczewski (Fat White Family, Insecure Men), Adam J Harmer (Fat White Family, Warmduscher). (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

Spela: Let’s talk about that for a moment - the ‘Avant Graduated’ - how did that happen?

Alex: I think it was Tim Harper [Nathan’s manager] mentioning it was half term next week, one Tuesday. And I thought, why not try that. Let’s do a kids jam.

Nathan: What would Cat Stevens do.

Spela: I haven't actually been to one but I have seen that little drummer.

Alex: Eddie.

Spela: Yeah he was great.

Alex: He is great. I swear to god his playing came on three years in three months. He's actually got a groove, he's got a real touch.

Nathan: It's bringing the best out of everyone. You know, if the kid can do something productive and the parent can be like, Oh, I'm going to have a nice drink. What's the risk?

Alex: To be honest with you, you do bring us to a point, which is the first one I think was kind of used to be like a creche. There were a bunch of parents who were like, oh, okay, it's somewhere for our kids to go and play around.

Spela: Leave the kids with the Fat Whites.

Alex: Yeah there was a whole group sat around the corner, just making loads of noise. And this girl Chloe was singing. It was beautiful. She sang something from Frozen or something, heartbreaking. And they were just fucking yammering around the corner.

Nathan: Yeah ordering bottles of prosecco.

Alex: But yeah it has been really good. And I love that sound - the music that comes out when people are just touching instruments for the first time. Because it's just about music. And if I’d had something like that when I was a kid, it would have been huge, which makes me feel like we should do it more.

Nathan Saoudi on keys, Sam Fez (White Devil Disco) behind him on drum machine, Adam Brennan (Fat White Family, Made, ScudFM) on guitar. (Photo by Lou Smith)

Spela: What’s it like when you play with musicians you’ve never played with before?

Nathan: Sometimes It's really good, sometimes it's really bad. [laughs]

Alex: But it’s all good because it's happening, you know what I mean? And that's another thing, being in my position there’s this weird line between being welcoming and encouraging, and discerning and judgmental. So you just change it out if you see it’s not working. But it's kind of a self-governing thing by now. Often I'll just go outside for a fag and I’ll hear a song finish and think “Oh do I need to do anything?” and then I see someone passing the bass over etc.

Spela: Yeah I remember in the beginning you definitely needed to be there to start and stop it and guide people a little. Is there any kind of thinking that goes into it or do you just play it by ear?

Nathan: You’ve got to see who’s got the darker shoes and then judge it by that.

Spela: I don't know what that means.

Nathan: If we see really dark shoes, we have to look at them and be like, Oh, there's a new shade of darkness. So we have to get someone with a lighter shoe to play with them. It's all to do with the shades of the shoes [laughs].

And secondarily to that, we look at how big their hands are. If someone's got small hands and they're playing bass, we've got to have someone with big hands playing the drums. And it's like if someone has big hands playing keyboards, we have to have someone singing with big hands also. We’ve got these weird little systems that no one can see but us.

Alex: Yeah that’s what’s really going on, you know? Things that me and Nathan are clued into that took a long time to master.

But there is magic there. As you said, it felt like a sacred evening.

And as far as curation goes, only so far as sometimes I'll say to a drummer ‘hey give us a shuffle’ or whatever if I just feel that it needs to change the vibe. But really I just kind of say, play whatever you want. Or if I’m trying to direct I find the bass is the easiest instrument to direct the whole band without giving any visual or verbal cues. So when I feel like it needs a bit of a push in a direction, I'll pick the bass up.

(Photo by Lou Smith)

Spela: Interesting. So have you picked up any new instruments?

Alex: I was a little scared of the harmonica before. I've got this chromatic harmonica that belongs to my dad. It’s a bit broken but it’s the one Stevie Wonder plays. I mean not the same one but yeah that's been kind of fun and that was also part of the Wrong show, that Nathan and I did with Orlando. Which is another thing that wouldn't have really happened without the jam.

Spela: That was a radio show?

Alex: Yeah Orlando from Alabama 3 does this radio show on Resonance FM called The Wrong show.

Spela: Nathan I've seen you play the drums which I’d not seen you do before.

Nathan Everyone can play drums.

Alex: I can't.

Nathan: Drums?

Alex: Not really. Or a trumpet. I can play a tambourine.

Nathan: No you can’t.

Alex Fuck off mate.

Nathan: No I’ve seen you struggle. [laughs]

Alex: Got paid a thousand pounds to stand there and play the tambourine the other day.

Nathan: Really?

Alex: It's actually true.

Nathan: Where?

Alex: At a posh wedding.

Nathan Nice.

Alex: I played sax twice. I did actually feel like a bit of a spare part.

Spela: Nathan I’ve never heard you sing here though.

Nathan: No I don’t want to sing here. And I have sung anyway, tiny bits. I'm not really in it for the singing though. I’m a voyeur, I like to watch sometimes.

Alex: Or just go sit upstairs.

Both: Go upstairs and watch TV.

James Donovan (HMLTD, Bishopskin) on guitar, Be Atwell (Alabama 3) and Marko Andic (Pigeonhole, Heartworms) on vox. (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

Spela: One of the singers who’s been to Avant Practiced once told me it was a very liberating experience for him because he was used to always being prepared and knowing in advance exactly what he was singing. Can you relate to that in any way?

Alex: Yes I know how he feels. It's just been good to just use my voice and have a place to do that.

Spela: Are there any particular styles or genres that you prefer playing here or that you haven't played before?

Alex: I really enjoy…

Nathan: The curry.

Alex: Yeah the curry’s good.

Nathan: Margaritas as well. You have a nice margarita, with a curry. Fucking top night out.

Alex: I sometimes de-tune the bass and just do like a horrible doom metal thing or whatever. I find those really cathartic.

Nathan: I don't like the white soul boy funk stuff. That’s the go-to place for all jams across the world. That's the cliche, stop it. So I'd rather do something more abrasive, more thudding, one chord or something like that.

Spela: Is that why you removed the drum kit?

Alex: Oh, it's coming back next time we do it. But it was a good change up and I think we should keep digital rhythms happening as well.

Nathan: They should never be the same thing. Once it's the same thing, everyone gets bored. Why does music have to be bass, guitar, drums? Such a narrow minded concept. Yeah there's been some successful outfits from that combination, but there's been countless bags of shite. I'd rather it was just whatever. And if someone can't play guitar well that’s the whole fucking point.

Spela: You’ve got the violin, you’ve got a horn section most of the nights.

Nathan: Yeah that’s when people bring a different instrument.They’ve put in the effort, they got the memo. I hate it when there’s like six guitars stacked up and all these men ganging up for that amp.

Spela: I’ve got a stylophone I can bring.

Nathan: Yeah bring the fucking stylophone. That's what we need.

Alex Definitely. Definitely bring that. Definitely bring that.

Phil Hughes (Subatomic Souls)on sax, Funky Al on bass, Alex on guitar and Hana Miyagi on violin. (Photo by Lou Smith)

Spela: I don't know if you've always seen each other this frequently, but you see each other every week now.

Nathan: We’ve seen each other frequently.

Alex: Very frequently. Certainly since Sheffield isn't it? Since about 2017. I was there during the week and here on the weekends when we were making Serfs Up [Fat White Family’s last album] and sometimes they’d all come down on the weekends, to let their hair down a bit. But then covid happened and we went out to Norway just to get away.

Nathan: How's this answering the question? What's the question?

Spela: If you’ve always seen each other this frequently and has your friendship changed now that you do this thing together every week?

Nathan: The frequency of normality is different. That's like a job. That's a strange question.

Spela: Well I didn’t know if this was a new thing or if you’ve always seen each other every week. Sometimes friendships change when you work together all the time.

Nathan It's not fucking OK Magazine.

Spela: Well, I'm curious about these things.

Nathan: Look all they want to hear about is the fucking curry. Trust me.

Spela: Fine - if you could jam with anyone, who would it be?

Nathan: Michael Jackson.

Alex: Prince. Or Stevie Wonder. Both. Prince. Stevie Wonder. Michael Jackson.

Nathan: Winston Churchill.

Spela: And if it could be someone realistic, someone that you could invite?

Alex: Larry Love. Oh, he's been down. Orlando. Oh, yeah, he's been down as well. Oh, the bass player for Boney M, he’s pretty good. Oh, he's been down as well. I don't know, just some of my friends, even some of my friends who I've played with since I was a kid and have never made it down.

Spela: Anything else that you would like to see happen here or as a result of this jam?

Nathan: Someone bring down a tuba, someone bring down a fucking cello again.

Alex: More didgeridoos.

Nathan: More didgeridoos. Someone bring down a nice synth, someone bring down a nice drum machine. Just bring something to try and impress people.

Alex: And then you'll be impressed with yourself if you try to impress people. That's the way it goes down here.

[Nathan has to leave the at this point]

Spela: Before you talked about people meeting and connecting - do you think there’s a supergroup potential here?

Alex: Yeah possibly. I like that it exists here, and this feels like it's home. But yeah you mentioned it before and it did make me think about it. I'll be doing something for sure. And maybe it'll incorporate a few people from here. We'll see.

Spela: Alright, last question. Are there any special memories or thoughts you’d like to share about this place?

Alex: It’s been kind of amazing to see how quickly people just enter this pub and just start making friends. I think that's partly to do with this place, it kind of has that energy to it. But also it has to do with the premise that you can just play anything you want and it doesn't matter.

Spela: Yeah I’ve heard lots of people mention that actually. How everyone is now friends with everyone here.

Alex: Like within a couple of weeks you’d see people were kind of turning around and going, Oh, hey! It's been very nice to see. That’s been sort of the resounding memory.

Alex & Nathan outside Earl Ferrers (photos by Spela Cedilnik)

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Avant Practiced takes place most Tuesdays from 8-11pm at Earl Ferrers in Streatham. Since it’s run by musicians with band obligations please follow and check the @avantpracticed instagram account on the day to see if it’s taking place, if you want to join the party.

Find out more here

Poster by Kieran Rid

Nathan Saoudi on keys, Sam Fez (White Devil Disco) behind him on drum machine, Adam Brennan (Fat White Family, Made, ScudFM) on guitar. (Photo by Lou Smith)

Harry McHale (Made, White Devil Disco) and Alex White on saxophones, Lincoln Barrett (Sorry) on Drums. (Photo by Lou Smith)

Lincoln Barrett (Sorry) on drums, James Donovan (HMLTD, Bishopskin) on guitar, Henry Spychalski (HMLTD) vox. (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

L-R: Poppy Richler (Deadletter), Anna E Hand, Joe Pancucci (White Devil Disco), Jasper Eade (Pigeonhole, Neuro Placid, House Arrest), Ollie Brown (Neuro Placid). (Photo by Lou Smith)

L-R: Ry-Guy, Saul Adamczewski (Fat White Family, Insecure Men), Adam J Harmer (Fat White Family, Warmduscher). (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

L-R: Bryony McIvor, Sophie Coppin (Made, Wayword), Alice Carman. (Photo by Lou Smith)

Lias Saoudi (Fat White Family, The Moonlandingz, Decius) & a blurry Gavin Mysterion/Sonic Eyes. (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

Larry Love (Alabama 3) accompanied by Fells Guilherme on drums (Children of the Pope, Brian Destiny, Romance of Baba Loco), Nathan on keys (both hardly visible unfortunately) and Duncan Love, Earl Ferrers boss, on guitar. (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

Juno Valentine (Children of the Pope) and Marko Andic (Pigeonhole, Heartworms) on vox and Ry-Guy on bass. (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

Phil Hughes (Subatomic Souls) on sax, Funky Al on bass, Alex on guitar and Hana Miyagi on violin. (Photo by Lou Smith)

James Donovan (HMLTD, Bishopskin) on guitar, Be Atwell (Alabama 3) and Marko Andic (Pigeonhole, Heartworms) on vox. (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

Alex on… a mixing bowl? (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

Colbert aka Black Elvis on vox, Duncan Love on bass, Hana Miyagi on violin, Alex on sax. (Photo by Lou Smith)

Nathan and the accordion. (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

Alex on sax, Warren Mansfield/Zsa Zsa Sapien on vox (Meatraffle, ScudFM). (Photo by Spela Cedilnik)

L-R: Poppy Richler, Joe Pancucci, Phil Hughes, Duncan Love, Alex White. (Photo by

Spela Cedilnik)

The audience. (Photo by Lou Smith)

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